Mr. Joe Igbokwe is the Lagos State Publicity Secretary of the All Progressives Congress and also an indigene of Anambra State. In this interview with Akinbami Faloye, he speaks on Senator Chris Ngige, the APC governorship candidate in the November 16 election in the state. Excerpts:
How have you resolved the crisis that trailed the emergence of Senator Chris Ngige as APC Gubernatorial candidate in Anambra State
Senator Chris Ngige has no serious competitor right from day one and even those who showed interest to square up with him knew this fact very well. Ngige has a fantastic, excellent and unquestionable pedigree that tends to dwarf the personality of other candidates. Comparing Ngige and these other contestants is like comparing apple and orange. It is like comparing President Obama and President Jonathan. It is like comparing the capacity of a brand new 504 pickup with the capacity of a 30year old Mark Truck. Ngige’s antecedents have rendered nugatory the ambition of these other contestants.
His structures in Anambra State are formidable, alive and strong. So what you call a crisis is the mere imagination of those that expected crisis in the emergence of Ngige but who were disappointed in the transparent way and manner the primaries were conducted by the APC. It is a fact that apart from Ngige, every other candidate in the election is wading through serious intra-party crisis. So there was no crisis to resolve except in the fertile imagination of the opponents of Ngige.
How is the campaign so far?
The campaign train is moving as expected, riding the smooth roads, then bumpy roads, climbing the hills and descending with grace and dignity, breaking ossified beliefs and heresies, engaging the high and the low, drilling the deepest wells, making politics sexy and adorable. The campaign is moving with common sense (even though common sense is not common); reaching to Igbo in Nigeria and Igbo in the Diaspora that what happens in Anambra must worry every Igbo man.
Without sounding immodest Anambra is the engine of Igboland. Anambra State parades the highest class of intellectuals in the South-east and South-south. Anambra State is one of the richest states in Nigeria. Most celebrated leaders in the East of Nigeria are from Anambra State. In Anambra State, wealth is almost distributed house to house. In fact, a school of thought says if Anambra State is not good, Igboland cannot be good. It is based on this compelling need to keep Anambra State strong that informed our decision to beg Ngige to run again and our people are happy that he accepted.
What effect has the relocation of Anambra indigenes from Lagos had on the chance of Ngige?
A sound and patriotic policy not targeted at any particular ethnic group just to make Lagos livable, clean and decent has been grabbed by ethnic chance-takers and miserable politicians to score cheap and dangerous political points. The plan of these political nitwits and dwarfs is to use the so-called deportation to bring Ngige to their level. These clowns know that they are not in the same political page with the former Governor and Senator Chris Ngige and therefore their devilish plan is to beat down Ngige from his towering height to their miserable level by engaging in primordial sentiments and ethnic pre-occupation.
It has failed and it will remain so. It is dangerous politics that may rock the boat and put to danger the cordial and well-respected relationship between Igbo and Yoruba that dates back to 1970, if not properly handled. The chance-takers and peddlers of misinformation will fail.
Don’t you think that rally in Onitsha on the day the Obi of Onitsha was celebrating Ofala festival was a political miscalculation?
Again, that’s another dangerous politics to reduce the towering image of Senator Chris Ngige. If reality is to prevail, the Ngige Campaign organisation had extensive discussion with the Palace Secretary on the matter and the campaign organisation was asked to go on since the Ofala festival in Onitsha is always conducted without asking people to close shops or markets because Onitsha people are civilised people who practise their well-respected tradition with grace, respect and profound dignity.
Unfortunately by the time the campaign organisation was talking to the Palace Secretary, our own HRH Igwe (Dr) Alfred Achebe was in Retreat (the normal tradition before the Ofala Festival). I am sure the Palace Secretary did not get the nod of His Royal Highness before he asked the campaign organisation to go on. This is the mistake. Senator Ngige is a traditionalist who understands Onitsha tradition very well, and he could not have ignored the highly revered Obi of Onitsha. Beyond all these however, it speaks of the depths and the height of depravity some people have taken Anambra politics to, for them to believe that such issues and not the general welfare of the people will count in the coming election.
How are you addressing the issue of power shift to Anambra North?
In Anambra State, we do not believe in the doctrine of power shift because we do not celebrate mediocrity. Only the best is good enough for Ndi-Anambra, Ndigbo and Nigeria. Four years is too much for a vibrant and a very important state to lose in the name of zoning. In Anambra State, we believe that if need be to form a football team for the state, only the best is good enough. If eleven players come from Nnewi North, so be it. Zoning breeds incompetence, mediocrity, and backwardness in governance.
What is your candid assessment of Ngige’s chance in the election?
There are 10 reasons why Ngige will be elected Governor on November 16, 2013? Dr Chris Ngige is a trained Medical Doctor of almost 40 years. He was in the Federal civil service for 18 years. He has served as a Governor for three years and made unprecedented impact under very difficult and dangerous circumstances. He is serving Senator of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. He is first President General of Aka Ikenga, an organisation of Igbo intellectuals. He liberated Anambra State from despicable money bags and notorious godfathers. Of all the candidates contesting for the Anambra governorship, Senator Ngige is the most experienced both in politics and governance.
Ngige is the only candidate that opened the eyes of the people of Anambra State that there is money in Government contrary to the picture previous governors painted. Ngige initiated and started the extensive road network we have in Anambra today. Ngige is the boldest, the most courageous, capacity driven, independent minded, most outspoken, fearless, strong-willed, and firm among the lots.
Anthony-Claret is a software Engineer, entrepreneur and the founder of Codewit INC. Mr. Claret publishes and manages the content on Codewit Word News website and associated websites. He's a writer, IT Expert, great administrator, technology enthusiast, social media lover and all around digital guy.
In this interview with journalists, the Delta State Governor, Dr. Emmanuel Uduaghan, gives insight into how the opposition political parties lost to the ruling Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) in the recent senatorial bye-election for Delta Central and why Soldiers were deployed to maintain surveillance. Chuks Okocha presents the excerpts:
How did the Delta Central senatorial election go?
It went very well. It was a very successful election. Eight or nine parties fielded candidates and at the end of the day the PDP candidate emerged winner of the election
What with the allegation of restricted movement and militarisation of the town?
The truth is that the soldiers did not want to come out for the election at all but what happened was that APC raised an alarm that PDP were going to rig election with soldiers in uniform; that some boys were going to put military uniform and carry ballot boxes, so INEC wrote to the Joint Task Force and the IG and the Joint Task Force replied INEC, so they drafted soldiers to the place and the way the soldiers operated, they did not go near the polling units.
All they did was to place surveillance on the roads if there is going to be people that will move ballot boxes, they were prevented from such movement and you must also know that even before the election, when the PDP candidate was campaigning with his team and they went to the traditional ruler’s house in Kokori, some youths came out and started shooting and they were locked up there for hours until they were rescued by soldiers. These are pointers that there will be violence.
So the soldiers had every reason to be out to maintain peace and order, so that the whole place will be quiet throughout the election. There was no case of reported violence. Security reports are there. The monitors were there and you can ask the journalists that came. When Lagos State did their local government elections, there were officials carrying ballot boxes away; it was recorded by a television station. Channels reported it very well but this one there was no journalist that recorded violence and the kind of activity that is being spread all over the place, so it was a peaceful election.
Is it true that your deputy who is from the senatorial district was in charge of the operation that stopped INEC officials from going to a riverine community in Ewuru?
Fortunately, if you looked at the AIT report that day, it stated clearly what happened in Ewuru because the materials from Ewuru came late and it’s a riverine area. So, when he got there about 3pm, the deputy was insisting that the material would still go but the other party said no and it was recorded on AIT who said no and who said yes. Some people said they could still go and the other parties said it was too late, that how could they go to the riverine area.
AIT clearly interviewed the other parties, saying it was too late and they should cancel the election. But because that is my deputy’s local government, he wanted the materials to still go but people said no, so they cancelled the three wards, which would have been to his advantage if they went. Why will he be involved if they cancelled the elections? And these are the three major local government areas.
The National Publicity Secretary of the APC, Alhaji Lai Muhammed, said the DPP won Delta central in 2011 and wondered what has changed between now and then that made PDP to win?
Before 2011 what was the result like? It has always been PDP but in 2011, there was a lot of crises within the PDP and there was a lot of opposition within the party and they moved to the DPP and all the people that contested election under the DPP all came from the PDP, from Pius Ehweriodo to the House of Representatives members; they were all PDP members and they moved to the DPP to just get the ticket.
And between that time and now, we have been doing a lot of reconciliation and you know I reconciled with Chief E.K Clark at the time he made a statement supporting the DPP and a lot of key actors in the central had soft-spot for the DPP and supported the DPP. But between then and now we have done a lot of reconciliation to the extent that all the key actors in Delta Central are back to the PDP, even the House of Reps member that was just one came back to PDP a day or three before the election.
The House of Assembly members, we have about four or five of them that are back to PDP. We only have two left and in the next few weeks, they will come back to PDP. Look at their campaign, who was the prominent Uhrobo person that came for the APC? There was none! We have done a lot of reconciliation and our people that went to the DPP are back in the PDP. Even in his village, his own brother that was his foot soldier and used to do the work for him is back in PDP. That’s why he could not even win his ward because the man who is supposed to win his ward for him is back in PDP.
So what are we talking about? Even his own people from Sapele are all back in the PDP and that’s the secret of what happened, we did a lot of reconciliation and I must emphasise that it was because of the reconciliation that we did.
Second, in this second tenure in terms of infrastructure, we have also done more than we did in the first term- schools, roads, hospitals and a lot more infrastructure. At least, the people are appreciative that a lot more work is being done with all their social programmes. Third, the people are also tired as an ethnic group. You know Delta Central is one ethnic group and they are saying the person they have in the Senate is a one person caucus; that he will be the only person in the senate for them. It’s however not the best. They want to belong to the majority party so they readily grabbed the PDP and their relationship with their president has improved, they are lobbying to get a minister and all that and of course, for them to continue the lobby, they have to stretch a hand of fellowship and it’s just natural they will embrace PDP.
There is the allegation by APC that security personnel beat up some of their agents and seized voting materials?
I think it’s wrong; it’s a very wrong statement. One will like to know the hospitals these patients were treated if they were beaten up. If a soldier beats you up, you know what that means, you must end up in the hospital, so we want to know the hospital they were treated and the doctors that treated them. Those are the evidences you will show to say that people were beaten up. But it’s not.
I have not seen, no paper has published anything, no electronic media has shown anything; they are just baseless allegation they are using to discredit the result. It’s unfortunate. It was a free election and so, for me, castigating or cancelling the results will not be the best. Go back and do your homework properly. What this election just showed is that those who think that they are on the ground are not on the ground.
If I were with them my advice would have been: go back and reassess your position, even when they did their primaries, it was full of controversies. Barrister Keyamo came out that the APC primaries was a sham and there is no way, once a primary is condemned like that (and there wasn’t much period between the primary and the election), there was no way they could have settled their home before the election with that controversial primaries. The two parties, DPP and APC had controversial primaries so when did they settle to be ready for election? I think they should go back to the drawing board if they want to make impact in the area
Are you saying the presence of soldiers did not affect voting?
No, not at all! It didn’t intimidate voters. In Channels, even you could see long queue of voters, so it didn’t intimidate voters. The presence of security people usually intimidate criminally minded persons.
You mentioned the primaries in APC and DPP and that brings us to the issue of primaries in the PDP, would you agree with stakeholders that the PDP primaries that picked Emmanuel was not transparent as people were forced to step down for him?
How can you say people were forced? How do you force someone from stepping down? It’s a consensus; it was part of our reconciliation. As soon as the seat was declared vacant, over 20 people indicated interest in contesting. If I’d allowed the 20 people to go for primaries, it would be very chaotic, based on our previous experiences so what I tried to do is to build a consensus. I was personally in the forefront of the consensus calling them, ‘oboy this might not be the right time to contest wait’, you know you have the right to indicate interest, but let’s look at what’s on the table and I sat with them. Is it what we want and all that? People indicated interest for so many reasons. Some indicated interest, not because they actually wanted to contest the election, maybe because that would give them the opportunity for the governor to call them and do some negotiation and it actually went like that. I called them one by one and told them the reason they should not go for primaries and they appreciated the fact that I called them early.
Sometimes what makes primaries very rancorous is the fact that if you call them at the last minute, they would have spent some money and they’ll say you could have called them early. So, based on experience, we were able to talk to some of them and they agreed. They actively participated in the election much more than people who did not contest in the primaries. So, if they were not happy, they would not participate actively in the elections. In fact, they actively worked for the main candidate and they were competing to get the highest votes in their area and they were part of the campaign.
With the result of the election even though it is still being contested, would you say there is no more opposition in Delta State?
There will always be opposition even if it’s one person. Without opposition there will be no politics. The opposition will always keep you on your toes. Without an opposition, you don’t grow politically, so I believe everywhere there is opposition and I give them respect. I respect the opposition because they point out certain issues which you will be taking for granted, so I always listen to them when they are making good points. But sometimes the points are just being made for points’ sake.
What does the rejection of the election result portend for 2015?
For me, it doesn’t portend anything. When you lose an election, you go to the tribunal. I think people should just go and work hard. What I also know from this election is that people at the top especially the leaders of the APC are being deceived by those on ground. I’m on the ground and there is a lot of deception and wrong perception. We are on the ground and those on ground, we know ourselves. I have been in politics in the state for several years and at least, I have a fair knowledge of who is on ground and who is not on ground.
I just think if they want to make an impression, they should work harder and not call for cancellation of elections. Once INEC makes pronouncement on a result, INEC cannot de-pronounce the result, if there is any word like that. What you can do is to go to the tribunal and I actually will advise them, instead of going to the tribunal, because I don’t see them winning, they should go and settle their homes. If DPP wants to exist, they should settle; if they don’t want to exist, for the remaining members, PDP is open to receive them.
Would you say the refusal of APC and DPP to work together gave PDP an advantage?
That’s a part of it, of course. The APC really is an amalgamation of half DPP and ACN, the other parties are just there in name, and within the DPP, there was a lot of infighting and conflict, whether they should join APC or not. Some said they would not, others said they would, even when he died, that situations has been there and before it, they were not really together. There were many DPPs after we had taken a large chunk of them and the remaining ones were not really together
Which do you support: a two party system or multiple party system?
I think with time, things will sort out themselves naturally. From 1999 till now, we find that as the years go by, the number of viable parties have continued to reduce and we still have a lot of parties but they are many in names. You go round this country and look for them: who is a member of this party, you won’t see them. They are there as parties but with time we will gradually gravitate to either two or to almost three parties
Do you think PDP is able to pull through its crisis?
Which crisis?
The crisis of the new and old PDP, don’t you think it will rub off on the party’s success in next elections?
What people don’t understand is that when the time for election comes, people will settle in their own house. Now, don’t forget there is something about the PDP. Since the beginning of this democratic dispensation; it’s the only party that has been bearing its name; the name it was registered from day one till now is still there. Other parties have metamorphosed; they have changed their name from one to another but PDP has remained PDP from day one till today.
So it’s a brand, that is the truth and because it has that brand name, many people at the grassroots still identify with it. In this country, any local government you go to, if you mentioned two parties, PDP must be one of them, so that is what we are using as a state now. In the campaign for this senatorial election, one of the things I did working with the party chairman was that our campaign should be ward-based. There was a local government campaign that was going on but real campaign should be ward-based and that means the campaign committees in every ward and those wards were going from units to units; from house to house.
That’s how the PDP is, naturally. They have a capacity to form teams in every local government in the country that can campaign for the PDP. So, in every local government, if we don’t win in that particular local government, we will get reasonable votes. This is an advantage of the PDP and that is why today, it’s a very difficult party to beat no matter how many amalgamation is going on; it will be a very difficult party to beat in this country.
Do you share the position that the national conference is ill-timed?
National conference is a dialogue and there is no dialogue that is ill-timed. Anytime you dialogue, it’s the right time. I was one of those who requested for a national dialogue early enough. What I didn’t accept was the sovereign national conference. We need to talk. There are lots of issues to be discussed and I pray that a lot of hostilities will be reduced if we are going to talk to each other. There are regions and there are ethnic groups that have one thing or the other to say; that have issues to bring up. So, we need to talk and once we are able to talk, it will be better for the country; it will be better handled.
Do you have problems with no-go-areas?
There should be no-go-areas; there should be no restriction in what to say and when we get to the table, if a particular region does not want an issue discussed, let it negotiate for that issue not to be discussed. It’s part of the dialogue. If they are raising an issue in the South-south for instance and the South-south people do not want it to be discussed, they will now negotiate and say why it will not be discussed. That’s the way I look at it.
What if some regions choose not to be part of Nigeria?
It will be discussed. If the other parts agree that they should not be part of Nigeria, so be it. That is what I’m saying. The bottom line should be discussion. If an area said I don’t want to be part of Nigeria, it will be discussed and an agreement reached, you see even at home when a husband and wife have disagreement and they are able to sit down and discuss it, the tendency for violence and breakup is very much reduced.
But when you don’t talk at all, this one will come in the morning and you have your bath and go out, no good morning; things are bottled up. But once you bring things to the table and create a great room for dialogue, you are able to solve many problems because your perception of me might change when you hear from me. However, when you don’t hear from me, you continue to have a negative perception.
There is also the belief that the president designed this as a precursor to 2015?
It can never be distractive. Talking can never be distractive. 2015 will come and go but Nigeria will remain and the earlier we start talking about Nigeria, the better. If you don’t talk today, you will talk tomorrow; if you don’t talk next tomorrow, you will talk the day after tomorrow. So, anytime the talking comes up, you will and now the president says we should talk and we must also thank him for the initiative because for the past one or two years, everybody has been requesting for dialogue and he said we should dialogue and people are reading meanings to it.
Don’t you think this talk could overheat the polity especially that campaign for 2015 starts next year?
No, and in actual fact, it will help to reduce tension. Like I said, it’s when you don’t give room for people to talk that you create tension. If there is no room for people to talk, people in the South-south will be talking on their own. In the west, they will be raising issues but there will be no common platform to discuss these issues and they will have problems. But now that they have created a common platform, we should thank him (Jonathan) for it.
Will the South-south ask for an increment in derivation?
Let me say I cannot sit here and be speaking for the South-south now. I believe that when the agenda for the dialogue is raised, the South-south will come back home and decide on what they want to bring to the table; what they want to discuss. But right now, the process has not started; I cannot pre-empt.
Anthony-Claret is a software Engineer, entrepreneur and the founder of Codewit INC. Mr. Claret publishes and manages the content on Codewit Word News website and associated websites. He's a writer, IT Expert, great administrator, technology enthusiast, social media lover and all around digital guy.
George Okoh spoke with a former Attorney-General of the Federation and Minister for Justice, Mr. Michael Aondoakaa, on various issues of national interest. Excerpts:
What is your take on the proposed national conference?
We just keep panicking in Nigeria over nothing. For me, the framework for national conference has not undermined the constitution and cannot undermine it. The reason is that at the end of the day, their report will be sent to the parliament. So, I don’t see why people should panic because Nigeria is run based on laws.
Whatever decision- executive decision and implementation of what will come out of the conference will not be adhered to; it has to be sent and if it is not consistent with the existing laws, there must be new legislations. And until legislations are done, the report of the conference cannot just be implemented by the President sue moto.
Other aspects may be implemented if the existing laws permit the president to do it. Those aspects they have recommended which existing laws do not cover, the president must go to the National Assembly. And if it requires the amendment of the constitution, then, the National Assembly will commence the process but then, two-thirds of all the states of the federation must agree. So, I don’t see the need for panicking.
Panic aside there is a school that says with the National Assembly in place, the conference is needless?
Well, he must have got an informed intelligence to commence. But we are all watching to see the purpose. He must have gotten informed intelligence. You know, he says he was also against it, but he changed his mind because after all, the constitution guarantees freedom of association, freedom of discussion and that could be in the basis. What do I want to bother myself and keep saying the people should not express their grievances? It is better for people to talk than people not to talk. That is why when I was the Attorney General, I was against time bar for litigation because I feel Nigeria will be safer when people are allowed to do what they feel is best for them; to pursue their grievances in court no matter how long it takes them than to shut them out.
After the elections of 2011, some cases were terminated based on time elapse. There has been confusion over the matter till date. Meanwhile, the National Assembly is still in the process of amending the constitution. Some of these issues we expected them to raise include the time frame to determine an election petition but unfortunately it was not touched.
Can you say you are comfortable with the issues they raised in respect to the amendment of the constitution?
Well, especially on the confusion created over time barred for election petitions, apart from the National Assembly, the Supreme Court itself has a duty to revisit the issue. The Supreme Court as a court of justice, where it gives a decision but it appears that there is substantial injustice occasioned on the populace; the court has a duty to revisit. For instance, when appeal remitted back and then time bound will run, I don’t quite agree with that. When my case is struck out there is nothing before the court and the time is supposed to run only when the case is before the court. There are two ways of looking at it: there must have been a broader interpretation to accommodate that.
For instance, there is an inherent right for an appeal to be heard and if a case is reversed and is asked to start afresh, it is within the law that nothing happened. So time supposed to have started commencing from the day. It has to do with the interpretations of that. The best thing that will happen to save that embarrassment is that Supreme Court must revisit the situation.
Anthony-Claret is a software Engineer, entrepreneur and the founder of Codewit INC. Mr. Claret publishes and manages the content on Codewit Word News website and associated websites. He's a writer, IT Expert, great administrator, technology enthusiast, social media lover and all around digital guy.
Dr Ogbonnaya Onu is the immediate past National Chairman of the All Nigeria Peoples Party (ANPP) which has merged with other political parties that formed the All Progressives Congress (APC). In this exclusive interview with Sunday Trust, the first Executive Governor of Abia State between February 1992 and December 1993 spoke on the challenges and benefits of the new party, the untold stories about APC history and the sacrifice made by the political parties that merged. Excerpts:
How do you feel now that your dream to ensure the registration of APC has been realized?
I feel very happy. This is a major achievement by our country because our dream and our wish have always been that we should have effective competition in the political arena. The emergence of APC has changed politics. Politics in Nigeria will never be the same. We will now have effective competition in the political arena.
Don’t you feel uncomfortable that you are now an ordinary member of APC, considering the fact that you were the former chairman of a big political party, the ANPP?
No. From the word ‘go’, we have always placed the interest of the nation first. We believe that we must put the nation first in everything that we do. And whatever we can do to make our country grow faster, become peaceful, more developed, more prosperous and better respected all over the world. I think it’s good. For us, as National Chairman of All Nigeria Peoples Party (ANPP), I knew that once APC is registered, all occupants of positions from the Ward to National level will now have to leave. But I think what is important is what is in the best interest of Nigeria.
There were reports that INEC was going to meet over your registration because of rival APC that was in court. Were you frustrated?
No. The conditions as set out in the Electoral Act and the Constitution are very clear. And we met all those conditions. As far as we are concerned, there is no court ruling. The matter is in court. We need a ruling for INEC to say anything. So, that was why we were never worried. And I must tell you that we were so prepared that even if INEC come and say change your name, we would have done so very quickly because our convention had delegated full authority to the National Executive Committee (NEC) of both ANPP and the Action Congress of Nigeria (ACN) and the Board of Trustees (BoT) of the Congress for Progressive Change (CPC). And in my own party, the National Convention even reviewed the period within which we can call our NEC meeting to only three days. So, within a short period, we would have addressed the issue since we have met all the requirements. It’s not easy to have successful convention where everybody will agree on something like that. But we did it.
Why did the leaders of APC go to IBB immediately after the registration?
Don’t forget that political parties will be looking for members, ideas and all forms of support. If a party goes to somebody who has been a Head of State, who has governed this country, I think it’s okay. I believe that the party will reach out to all Nigerians. What is before us now; all those who were in ANPP, ACN, CPC, and then the groups from the All Progressive Grand Alliance (APGA) and the Democratic Peoples Party (DPP) that came together to form APC are automatic members. But we are now interested in going out to bring in more Nigerians.
Are you saying that they are wooing the IBB to join the party?
There is nothing wrong if he decides to join the party. We know where he belongs to. Should he decide to join the party, it will be a very good thing. He is somebody who has governed the country. He understands the problem of the nation. He has a lot of experience that can be very useful in anything that involves how we can improve on the wellbeing of our nation and Nigeria.
ANPP was once a strong opposition party to PDP before its dwindling fortune. Don’t you think that APC can go the way of ANPP?
The circumstances are different. The nature of the administration that we had in 1999 is very different from the circumstance that we find ourselves now. By 1999, every effort was made to push the nation to one-party state or one party that is dominant. Most policies of government were in that direction. But because our democracy has been maturing over the years that can no longer be acceptable to Nigerians. So, the environment is completely different. And I want to point out now that the emergence of APC; as soon as APC gets registered and is now in the political arena, it has denied the PDP from being a truly national party. APC is now the only party in the country that is truly national. What do I say this? We have six political zones in the country. The PDP, even though they are controlling many States, they don’t have presence in the South-west at the governorship level. They are not controlling any State in the South-west. But there is no single geo-political zone that the APC is not controlling at least in one State. If you really want to look at a truly national party, it is the APC. And that character is very important because it will make APC to be more durable.
Your critics will say that the coming together of ANPP, CPC and ACN is that of strange bedfellows. How will you respond to this proposition? How will you ensure that various interests do not hamper the focus of the APC?
Those who say that I think they should think again. If you look at the manifestoes of those old parties, you will find out that they all had very progressive ideologies. It is actually the manifesto that will show the difference between one party and the other. So, we are parties that are thinking alike. And if you remember, the CPC came out of ANPP. And then the AD gave rise to AC. And AC gave rise to ACN. If you may remember, the very first day that APC was to be shown to Nigerians, the leadership of AD were brought in to be part of APC. It was just some disagreements that made them left. So, we have been the same people. Look at the Joint Merger Committee, the Chairman of ANPP Merger Committee was Governor Shekarau. The Chairman of ACN was Chief Tom Ikimi and the Chairman of CPC was former Deputy Governor of Bauchi State Garba Gadi. Garba Gadi was in ANPP. He ran for office of Governor of Bauchi State before he left for CPC. Chief Tom Ikimi was in APP before he left. So, you can see there isn’t really any basis for any person to make that comment. They have been making this comment. And we have been telling them that it’s not correct.
How will positions be shared in APC at different levels?
We have an Interim Management Team. We did that for us to qualify for registration. And our Constitution which has taken effect now with the registration of the party had a transitional clause whereby members of that Management Team was given maximum of six months. There will be Congresses and Convention after six months. At least for party positions, that has been taken care of. But for elected offices in the executive like that of President, Governor, Local Government Chairman and the legislature; the State Houses of Assembly, Senate and the House of Representatives, for these positions, it will come later. But you know we want to ensure that there is internal democracy. I can assure you this. In ANPP where I was the National Chairman, there was internal democracy. That was why we didn’t have any cases in court. We adhere strictly to the Constitution of the party and ensure that it is members of the party that decide whoever will fly our flags. So, the same will happen in APC. If you look at the APC Constitution, we even go as far as saying that even where there is a consensus and all candidates agree on it, there will still be Yes and No votes. We want to be sure that we promote democracy. If we don’t show it, then we won’t convince Nigerians that they should allow us to come on board. We can’t be criticizing the ruling party and then go and do the same thing.
At the national level, the Interim Leadership seems to have emerged easily. How are you going to achieve similar feat at the Polling, Ward, Local Government and State levels since it will be shared among members of the parties that merged?
No. We don’t have any problem. The Interim Management Team has scheduled a meeting for Tuesday. You are right. We are the first party to have an executive at the Polling Unit because we are a grassroots-based political party. And we want to be sure that we have our people because we want the people to be at the centre of everything that we do. So, it’s not just the Ward executive, we have what we call Committee at Polling, Local Government, State and Zonal levels. All these will be taken care of. That is why we have a National Interim Management Team. They will take care of that and make sure that everybody is given a strong sense of belonging. Don’t forget that before the registration, we have ANPP, CPC and ACN. But now that we are registered, the eyes of the world will go to the States and Councils. So, we are APC. Let me tell you something, if you take cement, sand and water, you will see how they look weak. But if you mix them, you get concrete. It’s a very different thing. When you sugar and water and you mix them, you won’t see the sugar again. So, that is what is happening. We want to be thinking of APC and not the parties that came together because these parties do no longer exist.
If you look at your Interim Leadership at the National level, it seems to be dominated by people from a particular ethnic or religious group. Why is it so?
No. Actually, if you look at the membership of the Interim Management Team- the 35 members, we have 18 of them as Muslims and 17 as Christians. We have 35 positions because INEC said we must have members from at least 24 plus the Federal Capital Territory (FCT) which is two-third of the 36 States that we have. So, for you to have members from 24 States, then your team must be more than 25. And we shared it in a way that the three parties of ACN, ANPP and CPC had nine (9) each. The remaining eight (8) positions were shared between APGA and DPP because the two didn’t come with leadership of their parties. Each party now has to go and fill up the positions allocated to them. So, that is why we could have this type of arrangement. But by the time we go into our Convention, this thing will be looked into.
When you talk about internal democracy, one thing usually comes to mind. The ACN and the CPC are thought to be controlled by individuals. Don’t you think that issues like imposition of candidates can still come up in APC?
No. What you can use to judge how APC will function is its Constitution. If you look our Constitution, as far as nomination is concerned, like I said even when you have a consensus candidate, there will still be a Yes-or-No Vote. We have said that all our primaries should be open and should be conducted in accordance with our Constitution. For example, if you are worried, I gave example of sugar or even salt. The two are white. But once you put them in water, you don’t see anything again. So, judge APC by its Constitution. I don’t know why everybody is always talking of ACN or CPC. They don’t even talk of ANPP. ANPP; if you look at our Constitution, it’s very clear that the National Chairman is the head of the party. All our primaries, INEC and journalists used to witness them. But the Constitution of the APC, which is the most important thing, is what I have told you. And the document is there with INEC. We are going to have internal democracy.
If you look at Nigeria today, the country is deeply divided along ethnic or religious line. Some people have concluded that there is nothing APC can do to win the South-east and the South-south because the two zones are President Goodluck Jonathan and the PDP. Some say the North and the South-west are for APC. The North-central is neither here nor there. How will APC bring about unity that will make us look at Nigeria as one country?
Actually, we, in the APC, are very concerned about the unity of the nation. We are going to work very hard. We are already doing so to make sure that the country is united because that is the basis of our progress and peace. And like I mentioned to you, we are the only party now that is actually national. We have strong presence in all parts of the country. It’s a pity that as at this time in the development of our country, we share differences-languages, worships. We believe that as we mature, these differences will diminish with time in the future. We believe so. But as at now, we must respect these things. We will take the appropriate measures and put in place necessary policies to ensure that that is achieved. We expect that we will win support from all parts of the country. Nigerians will see us, the APC, as a party that is really interested in effecting change. Our interest is not just to acquire power. I have heard people saying APC is just out to produce President. I tell them no. If we wanted that, then what we would have done is to go into PDP. But we do not do that because we don’t like the way things are going in the country. And we believe that Nigeria can be far better than it is now. So, that is why Nigerians will say we must give APC a chance. When you have two things, there is way of knowing which one is better until you try them
The rival APC has threatened to continue with court action. And they also want to take part in the Anambra State governorship election. Are you threatened by their actions?
No. For a nation to make progress, every citizen must be below the law. No citizen should ever be above the law. The registration of political parties, as of now, is handed over to INEC. It’s their responsibility. We didn’t register ourselves. We look at the Electoral Act. We went to the relevant Section-Section 84. We went to the Constitution. We went to the relevant Sections-Section 222 and 223. And we complied with the provisions of these Sections. It’s very tedious. Can you imagine that all leaders of these parties from Ward to National have given up their positions? Do you know what that means in a country where people want to extend their tenure? If people want to stay, they can go to any extent. And you find Nigerians who have taken a position to give up their positions- the positions that they were elected to occupy. I, as National Chairman of ANPP, I have one year plus to my tenure. But we gave it up. So, it’s a sacrifice. And then, we organized Covention, where in my own party, we had almost 6000 delegates. And everybody accepted in open field. The INEC witnessed it. If anybody is challenging it, it’s fine. But we shouldn’t be disturbed by it because it is INEC that has the responsibility to register political parties and they have discharged their responsibility.
Are you ready for Anambra election because that is the first challenge and the first test for APC?
There is no political party that is put together without that aim of winning election. And we are very ready we have good aspirants. We will get a candidate and we will campaign for the candidate and it’s our wish that we win the election. We will work very hard to win the election.
Some analysts are saying that for now APC is not interested in taking over from the centre. They just want to make their impact by winning more States to broaden the opposition’s base. Are you interested in taking over power from the centre?
I don’t know who these analysts are. But I just want to make it very clear that the reason why APC came into being is because; we, in the opposition, have been dissatisfied with the way the country has been since 1999. Some of us have been in opposition continuously for this length of time. And it’s extremely difficult to be in opposition in a developing country. But we have been there. And we said that the only way we can now win at the federal level is by coming together and making this type of sacrifice that I have mentioned- which is worth sacrifice. That is why merger of parties that control government is very rare anywhere in the world even in developed countries. So, we are determined to see that the country is run properly. But I tell you frankly, if anybody analyzes our situation, we will quarrel with the person. But we are determined to effect change in the country and we want to win at all levels, including the position of President. And we are prepared. By the grace of God, there will be so many changes that will happen before the election to show that we are very determined.
As an insider, what are some of the challenges you expect to tackle in the next few months as a new political party?
As a new political party, definitely, there are challenges. We have a lot of experience. Don’t forget that ANPP started as APP about 14 or 15 years ago. So, we have the experience and we want to improve on that. First, like I did say much earlier that all members of the parties are automatic members of APC. But we want to broaden that base. So, we have to go out to look for new members. And there are so many people who have shown interest, coming from places you least expect to join our party. So, when that is done, then the process of making sure that you get every person to think in the same direction. It’s such a challenge we will overcome. I think we are now ready to prepare for election.
What about PDP moles in APC because it was an issue in the ANPP?
In ANPP, people kept saying Chairman, are you sure, you people will go into this merger. And we started it. I always assure them that we have a new ANPP. As soon as I took over, we used the term new ANPP. The ANPP since 2010 has been very different from ANPP much earlier. In the past, ANPP used to work with government in power. But we stopped that. That will show that it’s completely new. And I think that from the beginning to the end, ANPP had no rancor. We don’t have crises. We were able to get ANPP to be crisis-free and peaceful. They moved in one direction as there was unity in the party. So, I don’t know how those moles will operate. You will be amazed that before long, I’m sure that PDP will even be talking of APC having moles when they find out that we are getting ver strong. APC is a very strong party. Don’t make mistake about this. All those analysts don’t understand the strength of the party.
Can you mention the roles you played in the emergence of APC?
Oh! Many. The National Chairman (the interviewee) was the very first person who sought audience with the leadership of the ACN in 2010. He went and addressed the national leadership of ACN. That was how the whole process started. And it couldn’t materialize before the election because there was no time. As soon as the case was over at the Supreme Court, again, the National Chairman of ANPP started the process of asking all Chairmen on the need to start working so that they can build trust and so on. Within the time that the Merger Committees were constituted and a Joint Committee was formed, ANPP played very important role. If you look at the Constitution of APC and that of ANPP, you will know the contribution. If you look at the manifesto of APC and the manifesto of ANPP, you will also see the contribution. So, we made very strong contribution. Contributions came from everywhere. Everybody made contribution. But it’s important to also recognize that ANPP made very important contribution. Like I said it is completely misplaced. You can see that ANPP had been together. Our convention was very successful. We have never done anything contrary to agreement we reached with our brothers and sisters in the other parties.
Finally, what would you want to add or want Nigerians to know about the new party; the APC?
The new party has come on board to change the way politics is played now. We want competition in the political arena. We believe that many of the problems we have had over the years have remained unsolved. They can be solved. It’s because we didn’t have effective competition. With this competition in the political arena, we can now have the right candidates. The first thing that will happen is that; even the ruling party now must change. If they bring a candidate who is not good, and we bring a better candidate, the difference will be there. We will now find out that over time, the quality of those who can win election and become servant of the people will improve. But the most important thing is that all this impunity in government, arrogance and abuse of power will be reduced. And then, we will now have an improvement in the quality of governance. Look at Ghana, the party that is in government now lost election to John Kuffour. Kuffour came in and spent two terms. It took the party years to come back. So, you have a situation whereby one party was in government, then it went back to be an opposition party. It later came back to government. And the other one returned to its initial position of being an opposition party. It’s going to bring a number of things. Unless people like us in Nigeria, many will just go and join the government. It’s very difficult to be in government. But if you find out that you can in opposition today and tomorrow, you are in government, then there will be no reason for you to move from one party to another. This is one problem that the emergence of APC will solve. Integrity in politics will improve. You see leaders are role models. When you have this competition, another very important thing is free and fair election. The strength is there. It will be more difficult for one to manipulate election. If you want to do so, the penalty will be very heavy. So, because of this, free and fair election will be allowed. When you allow free and fair election, most of the violent acts we have in the country will be curbed. So, it is the same people you use to cause violence during election that will rise against you after election and start creating problems for the society. There are so many benefits the emergence of APC will bring to the nation. And they are very good benefits.
Anthony-Claret is a software Engineer, entrepreneur and the founder of Codewit INC. Mr. Claret publishes and manages the content on Codewit Word News website and associated websites. He's a writer, IT Expert, great administrator, technology enthusiast, social media lover and all around digital guy.
Dr. Muhammad Usman Muttaka is the Head of Economics Department of Ahmadu Bello University, Zaria. In this interview, he has described the reported growth of Nigeria’s economy as a “paper growth”.
Excerpts:
The economy of Nigeria is said to be growing by eight per cent. What should have been the indicators of this growth?
The issue of growth is something that is not new in the economic literature because the measurement of development in any economy is associated with level of income that is generated, basically within a period of one year. So, if you said growth, you mean how the economy fared within that period.
So, I need to just draw a small caveat here. When you say growth, you are referring to the total aggregate of the output of the economy. Therefore, it needs a lot of measurement; a lot of quantification so as to measure the performance of that economy. And of recent, those indicators were given. One, stabilization of macro economy, that is, the level of income for individuals, level of employment, prices, inflation and a lot of other things that are complimentary.
I need to draw an example here, if you said that my house is growing, does it mean by size? It is either the number of people in the house that has risen or the space for each one that is growing. So, if you say the space of everyone is growing, it means that the house is growing in tandem with the population. In a nutshell, we say growth is used to measure the performance of any country in terms of economic activities.
So, you are saying that Nigerian economy is doing well?
No, not quite. It depends on the type of growth you have. There is new economic literature now that says growth without job is jobless growth and so many others. Because macroeconomic indicators involve level of prices, inflation, unemployment and employment, as well as level of living standard and poverty.
If you take these things, you will find out that in the economic literature it was argued that if your economy is growing; all the aforementioned would be relatively under control. If you take unemployment, for example, it is said in the literature that four per cent of unemployment is acceptable. But is that what we have in Nigeria? Does that growth that is being posted reflective of this? That is the first question to ask.
The second question is that if inflation is contained to certain number; is it inflationary or ineffective demand? When the people do not have income, no matter the prices, they cannot be able to purchase. So, along that line you will also look at your balance of payment, because we are import dependent. You also look at the percentage of agricultural contribution to that growth, because it has the implication of measuring the performance of the economy.
Where would you place this type of Nigerian growth, considering the level of poverty in the country?
I call it paper growth. Paper growth in the sense that the growth that is being peddled out does not reflect what you would find in the country. When you go to the street, you will see that the level of unemployment has increased and level of poverty has increased too.
You should look at other sectors like agriculture; is it working? Manufacturing; is it working? So, it is only minute sector of the economy like the telecommunication sector that is growing and that is what accounts for this growth that they are talking about.
Look at the oil sector; is it growing as a major revenue earner for the country? These are the indicators you should look at.
The debt of the country is said to be growing but it is not making much impact because of its low interest. What implication does that have on the economy?
The issue of debt; one can look at it on the Breton wood politics, which says some debt are harmless. There is no debt that is harmless. It is harmful. The way it is managed may translate to the harmless nature of any debt, anyway. In the case of Nigeria, if for instance, you take loan and invest in reproductive sector. For instance, you invest in agriculture where you open land to produce food and create employment and attain food sufficiency that can be a harmless loan. But what we have now is not even accountable. We don’t know what they are doing with it.
Where the Minister of Finance is coming from, you can easily understand why she says that our debts are harmless. She is from the World Bank. Hence, she has to find market for the World Bank because when she leaves the ministerial office she would look for another office in the World Bank. That means she has to work for them. Many economists believe that where we are going in terms of debt would be tragic.
According to your explanation, can we say that there are some debts that could help the economy of the country?
The only debt that can help the economy is the one that is managed for investment. For instance, you secure a loan and invest in development of human manpower like education. With that, you can produce manpower that can compete and add value to the country. But any debt that is not reproductive, that debt will never be a good debt. And I don’t think Nigeria has any business as it is now to take any loan because the resources they have are so enormous. But the issue is that there is a lot of corruption and therefore that corruption will continue to tie the country down unless we address it. And I don’t see that happening soon.
Let’s look at this issue of petroleum subsidy. It is stopped in 1970s put at one trillion naira. Out of that amount, it is said that N232b is questionable. What effect would that have on the country’s economy?
You see, some of us have already made our points about this fuel subsidy. The first question is that the issue of petroleum or oil sector is an international affair. So, it is an open secret if you want to know the cost of drilling a well and extracting one barrel of crude oil. You go to Saudi Arabco website you will see the prices. They will also tell you how much it will cost you to refine one barrel of crude oil, and the other products that would be extracted as well. Therefore, for a liter of petrol or PMS as they call it, you would know the price. But it is only in Nigeria that somebody will come and tell you that yes, there is subsidy. How does the subsidy come in? How much did they get the oil? How much did it cost them to refine, how much did they pay in transporting it? How much does it sell as the pump price? And you are not even producing it you are importing it. Where were you importing it from and at how much per liter? Because all these things are supposed to be open.
So, the issue of subsidy is like some people are just part of the corruption that we are talking about. They are trying to justify their inefficiency in curtailing certain leakages that are within the economy. So, as far as we are concerned, in simple elementary economics, there are different sectors of markets. There is what they call perfect competitive markets, there is what they call monopoly; there is what they call oligopoly.
The oil industry is in the oligopolistic kind of market. It is like a cartel. The international price now is not determined in Nigeria. It is determined elsewhere. Therefore, you can’t say that oil price in my country would be as competitive as they want us to believe. We would ask them how?
The advocates of competition in Nigeria’s oil market seem to have forgotten the elementary structure of that market. This subsidy is just a gimmick, which has no basis. If they are honest enough, they should come out to tell us how much they import these things. We can then go to the international market and ask how it is sold in the international market and the landing cost of each liter. Then we would see whether there is subsidy or not.
From this analysis, what is the implication of this subsidy that is said to be given to Nigerians on the economy of the country?
Yes, the implication is uncertain. The issue of investment, production and everything is uncertain. And for an economy to grow, there must be stability so that you can plan for ten or twenty years. Our major problem started when we jettisoned our developmental plan. By 1970, if we had followed the developmental plan that was drawn, we would have outweighed our contemporaries. We started planning with Brazil, India and Pakistan and they are still planning. Our problem started in 1986 when we were asked to throw away planning and embrace Structural Adjustment Programme. And from there nobody knows what is going on.
It is said that about 600,000 barrel of crude oil is being lost every day in Nigeria. What effect does this have on the country’s economy?
That is what they are quoting but I bet you even if you go to NNPC and ask them how much crude oil we are producing per day, they can’t even tell you. The country is held hostage by those international oil companies. Because of the nature of our country, we don’t have the mechanisms to checkmate those companies. As such they declare what they want as what they produce per day.
So, that 600,000 they are quoting is far below what is being lost. The implication is that the money for our crude oil is not coming to the government but to private individuals, and this would affect the capacity of the government to cater for the needs of Nigerians in providing infrastructures and other essentials.
That is one problem. The other problem is that if you quantify the amount of money that is going out of Nigeria in payment of school fees abroad, health tourism; you would be just weeping because it is far above the national budget of those sectors.
There are so many things that one needs to look at. In economics, you don’t look at things in isolation. In economics, it is one thing that triggers the others. So, one has to look at all the issues simultaneously.
Some stakeholders are saying that failure to punish offenders is also detrimental to the country’s economic growth. For example, recently ghost workers were discovered but nobody was punished. What’s your take on that?
I would look at it from the perspective of what brought about ghost workers. For instance, if you take a civil servant to Abuja, you know that lifestyle there is high, and you know his income. On that he has to find another way to live above waters. If he is an accountant, he would say let me add six names so that he would be collecting seven people’s salary to augment his income.
There is also the issue of some obnoxious policies that bring about all these. For example, you take tax payers money to build housing estates to give to civil servants and come back to sell those houses and throw out the civil servants. They would come back to connive with their friends to buy the houses for themselves and raise the rent.
Let me make a comparism. Seventy per cent of houses in Paris now are owned by the government. It is only in Nigeria that you build a massive housing estate like the one in Gwarimpa and sell them out. So, there is ignorance on the part of the policy makers on the economic implication of those things.
Two, some know the implication but because of their corrupt tendencies they would do those things. Three, some people who are not Nigerians. They are just Nigerians by name and by birth. Their allegiance is not for Nigeria. Therefore, they don’t mind if Nigeria collapses today. They are people whose families are not in Nigeria. They are just in Nigeria for certain gains.
So, many things are involved here that include moral and ethics as well as even the essence of human existence.
What do you have to say about SURE-P that has started executing some projects, which are supposed to be under the jurisdiction of some ministries?
Seriously, there is a problem with that arrangement. This has to do with the National Assembly. I feel that the National Assembly should have an independent office that would be investigating certain issues like budget implementation, economy and even politics.
What SURE-P is doing is what ministry of works is doing. Therefore, what happened to the budget meant for that ministry? Nobody knows. But the National Assembly would just say they are going for an oversight but in most cases nothing comes out of it.
PTF that looks like SURE-P came up under military regime but this SURE-P supposed to have been checked by the National Assembly. Lack of that checking makes our economy to suffer. So, all these conceptions were brought to fore by people who are not Nigerians in their allegiance. They compare what is happening at their adopted countries and try to implement them in Nigeria without understanding our economy and what is good for our economy.
Nigerian economy has human resources that are highly competitive anywhere in the world. Two, there are enormous resources, especially land that can turn around the country. Nigeria also witness minimum natural disasters. We also have the market because 160 million people is a large market that everyone needs to respect. So, we have every opportunity to progress. But there are many impediments, some are out of ignorance while some are out of greed and selfishness. But the future is not gloomy if we may have a rethink because we are far behind where we ought to have been.
Anthony-Claret is a software Engineer, entrepreneur and the founder of Codewit INC. Mr. Claret publishes and manages the content on Codewit Word News website and associated websites. He's a writer, IT Expert, great administrator, technology enthusiast, social media lover and all around digital guy.
Former president of the Nigerian Bar Association Olisa Agbakoba restates his opposition to the death penalty in this interview with Ahamefula Ogbu
Why are some human rights activists kicking against executions in Nigeria? We had met at the Commission on Human Rights forum in Geneva and agreed on a moratorium on execution whereby the practice had to be on hold for some time. We came back and engaged President Olusegun Obasanjo and extracted an understanding that executions have to be put on hold. Then from nowhere Edo State governor executes. I don’t know whether he was influenced by the circumstances our very good friend who was part of the human rights community, Comrade Olaitan, was killed and therefore he took it personal. The thing is that he can execute and he has done what he did and is entitled to do so. He has the power to do so but, sometimes, society depends on national or international conventions. Though it is not in the constitution, but it is accepted. So on that score I am unable to understand why it was necessary for Adams Oshiomhole to have ordered the warrant of execution.
But some state assemblies are passing laws prescribing death penalty for certain offences like kidnapping; how does the moratorium affect that? The governor of a state certainly has power if the house of assembly prescribes a penalty for an offence in which death penalty is attached. There is no question about that under the criminal code of Edo State, the governor has power to sign warrant of execution. He was right to do so legally but in view of the international status of the discussion, whether the death penalty has any real effect, I criticise the signing of the warrant as my personal opinion. The death penalty can be institutionalized and you can introduce a death penalty for a man who has no driver’s license and merely because you are a house of assembly and you pass a law then you say the governor has power to carry out a lawful execution merely because it was passed by a house of Assembly. But that is what we call nolle mala prohibiter, that means an issue is prohibited merely because he house says it is prohibited, but there are laws that are said to be bad in themselves. So that takes us to a matter that is not subject of this interview – a theory in jurisprudence between the school of law and what is just. So it depends on how you see it.
Law has many faces. Ribadu had a very strong view on corruption and he was prepared to sacrifice due process in order to get at corrupt people. I wasn’t prepared to do so as President of the NBA. I felt that even though he can see them with stolen money, he is required to go through due process because one day one innocent man may be affected. So one of the reasons death penalty is not accepted is because many people have been hanged innocently.
So it is a balance, you can never get a wholly correct answer. It is up to the person to say whether he likes it or not. In England, in the west generally except America, death penalty is abolished but America is one of the most guilty states in the world and China for death penalty, yet it is one of the most developed countries in the world professing human rights. Adams Oshiomhole says executing a person is not a violation of his right because he was also looking at the person who has been killed by this murderer who you want saved. So it is a highly complex issue that you are actually dealing with. There are lots of moral, emotional, religious, cultural factors that shape how death penalty is viewed. Even when I argued the case in the Supreme Court, cultural issues came up; as we proceeded, religious issues came in. So it is a very difficult subject, but my main worry was this: why did Adams Oshiomhole suddenly sign that death warrant even though he has power to do so? That is the main question and I think only him can answer that.
But some of these people have been on death row for 10 years…? (interrupting) And so what? What is the meaning of one staying on the death row for 10 years for no fault of theirs. So the proper thing is to execute them?
People argue that the man in London who advocates that death penalty should be abolished may not contend with the kind of crimes we are facing here and that the situation and developmental state of our country requires that death penalty be imposed as a deterrent. Isn’t that a valid point?
That is a good question, but my question remains this: is there any evidence that because there is death penalty it has served as a deterrence to armed robbery? In fact, when Civil Liberties Organisation did a study at a time on rising crime, we established that as a result of the death penalty being imposed, armed robbers were violent. They grew from being petty thieves to being violent criminals that would kill because they knew that if caught they will be executed. So, death penalty does not in fact, contrary to your notion, deter anything. Has it stopped corruption? It has not. What will stop corruption is a strong rule of law process whereby there is a clear perception that if you are engaged in corrupt practice you will go to jail. If you feel that death penalty will stop corruption, you are wasting your time. It will not. So if deterrence is the argument I disagree in the context of a developed society. What of those governors that stole money and are walking the streets? You and I know them, why not let’s start by shooting them?
Assuming that there is an understanding from the federal level on a legislation that execution should be put on hold and the states have their own laws prescribing the opposite, my understanding is that when the constitution clashes with any other law within the country, it overrides it. Can the states go above the prescription of the federation to stop execution to execute? No, the federation has no power to say let’s put it on hold because the Nigerian federation runs on three levels. Powers given to the federal government is on the exclusive list; powers given to states is on the residual list then there is a third list called concurrent list where the federal government and the states share power. So the federal government has few criminal offences committed against the federation; most of the offences are state offences. To answer your question, President Jonathan cannot as a matter of policy order any state not to execute because the governor signs death warrant pursuant to the criminal code of the state. Adams Oshiomhole would have signed the death warrant pursuant to the criminal laws of Edo State, not the federal government. So the federal government cannot stop him if he wants to do so. I restate that Adams Oshiomhole has the legal authority clearly to order the execution or to reprieve the person and nobody can stop him. Once a judge of a high court of Edo State has passed a death sentence, the only person that can stop it is the governor by way of reprieve or an appeal court overturning it. The Court of Appeal can say no the judgment was wrong or the Supreme Court. But once the Court of Appeal has finished and the Supreme Court has finished and upholds the judgment of the high court, there is nobody else that can stop him from being executed except the governor.
Now the argument is that before you reach the Supreme Court, you would have spent 15 to 20 years on death row so why stay there to crowd the prison, why not execute him but how do you blame a man for taking advantage of an appeal process that is corrupt, that is meant to be very slow? When he has taken advantage of the appeal process you then say lets execute him and make less of the prisoners, come on it is so ridiculous. If a person who had a death sentence passed on him in say January 2000 by 2004 has finished his appeal, then I can understand it, but a person who spends 20 years in an inefficient judicial process fighting for his life is now said to have slowed the process and therefore left to be killed. That is another reason why death penalty is opposed because the man is trying to fight for justice rightly or wrongly and I can tell you that a very good percentage of the people on death row committed the offence, but there is also a minority of them on death row who did not do what they did and they were executed.
I can tell you a case that did not warrant a death penalty. A boy was promoted in the Nigerian Ports Authority in the 80s and they were drinking spirits to celebrate. When they were drunk, he chased the girlfriend of another person and the guy just kicked him, not knowing he had what we call in law “egg shell body” – weak body. He fell down and died. He had death sentence passed on him and was executed. How does that innocent act lead to the death of a person? How can the execution of another person bring the person back that was killed? So there are so many jurisprudential, sociological reasons why many of us will never support death penalty.
This moratorium you spoke about, I understand it was President Jonathan that prodded the governors to sign the death warrants. How do you see it, one President saying let’s put it on hold and another saying let’s execute? That is what I am saying. It is a very funny situation on the federation. On the one hand, Jonathan deals with prisons, he has jurisdiction on the prisons budget and when he looks at the budget of the prisons and sees it is very high, he would be wondering, why is it very high and when he is told well you see, all these men on death row are occupying space and he will say sign the death warrant for them now. That is part of the context. But in truth, he doesn’t have authority over the legal status of the prisoners who have been found guilty and that is another very contradictory aspect of our federalism. The state governor has power over the body of the person, the president of Nigeria has power over the custody of the person. So you see how silly our federation is? The state governors have power over the body, Jonathan has power over custody. That is why Jonathan was concerned that a lot of money is being spent and he may not have known the history of all the issues. But he will say innocently: if a man has finished his chance in the court, what is he waiting for? So he advised the governors to sign death warrants because they are going nowhere anymore.
Can you talk a little bit more on the convention where the moratorium agreed on? The United Nations Human Rights Commission was set up and it brings together a number of international instruments. There was an instrument on human and political rights, the international instrument on human and political rights. The initial one does not contain the policy on abolition of death penalty but in the course of campaigning and advocating for the abolition of death penalty, many countries began to accept that it should be abolished, so an optional clause was put into the international convention that any state that likes to abolish the death penalty was free or permitted to do so optionally. We now came and said that we don’t want death penalty at all and in the course of the meeting in Geneva, they said alright let there be a moratorium in place on executions so that no person may be executed. Although the moratorium is not enforceable, it is just a resolution that no one will be executed pending when we can look at these matters carefully because it is a very huge issue. You look at it from the international level, that of the UN to African Union, African Human Rights Commission, it takes decades to talk about conventions, to make an African state a permanent member of the UN or he is ready to obey the resolutions of the UN has taken decades. So the moratorium matter has in my view even died, it is not in force. But the main question is what pushed Adams Oshiomhole, because he has had the power and this is not his first time in office; he is on his second term. I am sure we don’t know the number of people on death row in Edo but they will be more than one; but why did he decide to execute now and not when he came in? That is a question that needs to be answered.
Taking into consideration the security situation in the country, religious and otherwise, do you think that executions would not be justified in Nigeria? I think it will not be justified. The fact that there is a failure of a system is not the answer for a problem. Besides that, we do not have a strong system of policing and law enforcement. It is not enough to say anybody who commits a crime, cut off his head. Even with Boko Haram, it is obvious that death penalty has not deterred them. If at all, it has made them to be suicide bombers, and that is because those who have studied death penalty which is a very big subject, have seen that it does not stop anybody from committing a crime, whether it is corruption, kidnapping or whatever. A kidnapper who knows that if he is caught, he will be killed is likely to kill his victim.
But you will agree with me that in India, executions have deterred crime? I disagree with that.
Some Indians that produced fake drugs and shipped to Nigeria were executed but their Nigerian counterparts are still here doing more harm? The situation for the execution in India having effect is because when the law is applied, it is a latent issue you are dealing with. In China if you misbehave, even though it is a corrupt country, if you misbehave and you are found, you will be severely punished, whether it is by execution or imprisonment or whatever. I was in Enugu prison when Abacha was in power and I went there as a political prisoner and I met with a number of people on death row and part of the conversation I had with them showed that death penalty does not deter; what deters is strong application of the law across the board. Why do we have basic crimes going on? It is because people know the laws are not strong, and the policemen will take bribe and therefore nobody is afraid and if you commit a crime in the US or in the UK on India or China, you are assured that the law will deal with you severely. But if you commit a crime in Nigeria, whether it is a crime that attracts death penalty or does not attract death penalty, both of us know that in most cases the police will let you out if you can buy your way out. It is happening, big men who are buying their way out of the criminal justice system. That is the reason why India works because any crime you commit, you will be punished according to the dictates of the offence committed.
So stronger laws and adherence to rule of law rather than death penalty will achieve more than executions? Strict adherence to rule of law so that people will know that if you commit an offence you will be punished. Why were people afraid of Ribadu? Not because of death penalty but because if you commits an offence and he catches you, you are in big trouble. That is a strong system and system that works. If you break the traffic light in the UK, you are in very big trouble but if you break it in Nigeria, you can park by the corner and discuss with whoever you are discussing with and you will get off. That is to say we don’t have system of strong laws where people are afraid of police. They will not be afraid of what the police can do, but because the police can enforce the law. If someone puts N100,000 in his pocket today, he can practically go round Nigeria with five corpses in the boot of his car. So that is the point, if you have much chance of being caught when you commit an offence you will caught you won’t even think of it. Impunity is the problem and not when you catch some offenders you will say let’s kill them. I am a very strong opponent of execution. Strengthen our laws, that is the way to go.
Anthony-Claret is a software Engineer, entrepreneur and the founder of Codewit INC. Mr. Claret publishes and manages the content on Codewit Word News website and associated websites. He's a writer, IT Expert, great administrator, technology enthusiast, social media lover and all around digital guy.
How would you describe your current relationship with Governor Rotimi Amaechi. The governor recently alleged that you betrayed him?
I do not have a cordial relationship with Amaechi. I can say that clearly. I worked for PDP in 2011. I was the Chairman of the Reconciliation Committee that ensured the victory of PDP in Rivers State in 2011. I was one of those who worked for the victory of PDP in Rivers State, but after that I have had no dealing with him. Amaechi claimed that he made me deputy Speaker of the House of Representatives. That is very unfortunate. It is very sad. This is a statement I had initially waved aside, believing that nobody would believe such story. But since the lie is still being repeated, I felt I should respond to it. There is a saying in my place that when a lie is told many times, it resembles the truth. Some people would begin to believe it as the truth. How can a State Assembly member influence the choice of a presiding officer of the House of Representatives? It is unimaginable. The process of emerging as deputy Speaker or as a presiding officer of the House of Representatives ends in the House; on the floor of the House itself and Amaechi has never be a member of the National Assembly. So, he did not have a vote and he didn’t have a role to play at that level.
I will give to him what he did. He was one of those who spoke to Odili to support my candidature as deputy speaker of the House of Representatives in 2003. I repeat, he was one of those who spoke to Dr. Peter Odili to support my candidature. That was all Amaechi did. I have never heard even Odili, the then governor saying that he made me deputy speaker. After Odili agreed to support my candidature – please note, that was the position zoned to South-south – there were other South-south governors that were involved in the process. After that, we appeared before the National Working Committee led by Audu Ogbe. I recall that the person that was supported by South-east was rejected by the working committee. I went through that process then got to the floor of the House. Some of my colleagues, specifically West Idahosa and Temi Harriman said to me at different times that they were withdrawing from that contest because I was the candidate.
At what point did Rotimi Amaechi come in? The only role like I said is that he spoke to Dr. Odili to support my candidature. Thereafter, he played no role. So, it is unimaginable that Amaechi would consistently tell such bogus lie that he made me deputy speaker. Now, he made me deputy speaker and I betrayed him. Where is the betrayal coming from? That I indicated interest to be governor of Rivers State? I have a right to contest an election. Unfortunately, on the day of the election, Dr. Peter Odili asked me to withdraw and I backed out of the election. But I can tell you and I put on record that we know what happened. The only person I have not heard that he (Amaechi) has accused of betraying him is God.
Let’s talk about the visit of the First Lady to Rivers State and the crises that followed. What actually happened? We were at the airport to receive the first lady. Neither Amaechi nor his wife was there to receive the first lady. We received her and she went to town. She was in Port Harcourt for about 10 days. There was no sign of the Rivers State government. She spent her time in her home state and went back. That was precisely what happened.
How true is the claim that the crisis in Rivers State is being masterminded by the Presidency? The problem we have in Rivers State is an internal affair. Rivers crisis is internal. Mr. President has never spoken to me about it. His wife has never spoken to me about it. It is our internal crisis.
Critics say some Wike loyalists are plotting to impeach Amaechi with five members? I am not part of that. We said on several occasion that we are democrats. Five persons cannot impeach a governor in a House of 32. I am not aware of any plan by five legislators to impeach Amaechi.
There are speculations that pro-Amaechi elements in the Rivers State PDP are planning to dump the party for APC. Are you worried? Clearly as we speak, Amaechi is not a member of PDP. He has been suspended; he is certainly not a member. Unfortunately for him, he has gone to court. So, the matter is in court. He has no business with the PDP. The earlier he leaves for another party, the better for him and the system. But I can assure you that Rivers is a PDP state and will remain a PDP state. Rivers does not need Amaechi or PDP does not need Amaechi to win Rivers State.
Is Amaechi not performing well in Rivers State? In judging, there should be yardstick. How much has Amaechi realized from the federation account in the past six years? Over N1.6 trillion. The state is owing over N200 billion. You said Amaechi has performed; what is performance? The classrooms? I can tell you the principles behind the contract award of classrooms and the health centres. They were meant to patronize political associates and his loyalists. Where are the teachers for those classrooms? Where are the furniture? How many of them are in use today as we speak?
People say that “Abuja politicians” like you are being used by the First Lady to undermine the Amaechi administration. How would you react to this? I said it earlier that the First Lady is not using me and she is not using any member of our group. Abuja politicians will go to Port Harcourt. I am in Port Harcourt every weekend. Let Amaechi come out for an election with me; we are in the same senatorial district then we will be able to determine who is more on ground. Forget the fact that he is a governor. I am an Abuja politician – good, but Amaechi was a Ghana politician. He was not even in Nigeria, he ran out of the country. So, if I am in Abuja, I am still within Nigeria, but he was in Ghana and I am sure that Ghana will be too close because he will go somewhere farther than Ghana.
What happened between the President and Amaechi in Port Harcourt? The President arrived and he received everybody. Wike, everybody shook hands with everybody. Amaechi wanted the President to avoid some persons but the President said these are Rivers people and he shook hands with everybody and left. Let me tell you, Amaechi has gotten it wrong. Amaechi needs to retrace his steps. God favours Amaechi. The way he came in as governor has never happened in the history of this country. That alone should humble Amaechi and he should go back to God. He should not miss the track. In 1999, I was returned unopposed in the primaries. I was returned unopposed in the general election to the House of Representatives. Amaechi was contesting the state assembly. He lost the election in the state assembly. He went to tribunal and lost. He went to appeal and got judgment. At that point, I was already made. I was already a member-elect.
Anthony-Claret is a software Engineer, entrepreneur and the founder of Codewit INC. Mr. Claret publishes and manages the content on Codewit Word News website and associated websites. He's a writer, IT Expert, great administrator, technology enthusiast, social media lover and all around digital guy.
Last Wednesday marked the 20th anniversary of the great day called June 12 in the political history of Nigeria. For twenty years, all the laudable talks, beautiful adjectives and anecdotes have been used lavishly to describe that exercise. It was a day of liberation. A liberation that never was in the true sense.
Despite his furtive attempt to defend his action in annulling the June 12 presidential election over the years, the burden of guilt still lays heavily on former military president, Gen Ibrahim Badamasi Babangida. It is a cross he will have to bear till breathes last, especially as his name and memory collocate with that great and grave injustice.
It was a day laden with ironies. The June 12 election was supposed to be during the rains. But meteorologists confirmed that all over Nigeria, there was no rain anywhere on that day. I had looked forward to the day with so much excitement. The sun shone with its own excited blaze. I had covered the Hope 93 Campaign Organisation from the very start. I had traveled with the late MKO on many of the campaign tours, I had reckoned that the volume of reception he got across the country was indeed overwhelming, especially when compared with the pilfered crowd of his counterpart, Alhaji Bashir Tofa, the presidential candidate of the National Republican Convention (NRC). Abiola’s philanthropy, business background, academic background and indeed, his many women, character, etc had all combined to work in his favour. He could connect with every part of the country with homely familiarity. Even his message was enchanting and inspiring. Everything, but the establishment worked in his favour.
His chief strategist, Dr Jonathan Silas Zwingina left nothing to chance. His (MKO’s) sheaves were really upright. Nigerians were not only tired of military rule, the Abiola candidacy chimed well with many of them. There was a bright hope of a new dawn. A dawn that never broke.
The sign that it will be a frustrated dawn emerged soon as Abiola and his late wife, Kudirat cast their votes. The then National Chairman of the NRC, Chief Tom Ikimi began to make a heavy weather out of the fact that Abiola wore a green agbada on which was emblazoned the imprint of a horse, the emblem of his party, the Social Democratic Party (SDP); seeking to suggest that Abiola was, in a way, continuing his campaign, after campaigns had officially ended. He was already stoking the fire of that issue as the initial results were trickling in. We have always had bad losers amongst us. And it resonates well with the recent Nigerian Governors’Forum election, which was won by Governor Rotimi Amaechi, but because he was not the one they (establishment) wanted to win, they began to (as they say in Warri) “draw rain”. A needless rain! They started looking for excuses and after-thought arguments to discredit the election, just as IBB and his cohorts began to shop for excuses to justify why MKO could not be declared. IBB, like Akpabio and co wanted to abort a baby that had been born. From the time of Ikimi to the time of Akpabio, we have always had bad losers.
I remember that the National Publicity Secretary of the NRC at the time, Dr Doyin Okupe, (now President Jonathan’s ‘attack dog’) was so angry with the argument of Ikimi so much that he (Okupe) chose to resign from office. Those were days of righteous principles. Not anymore, it seems. By the end of the first week, when Babangida announced the annulment of the election, the entire result had been known and it was clear MKO won the election landslide. The latter swore to fight the annulment, and vowed to keep a date with history. He did.
It was such a funny act. A man is made to go through the rigours of an election. He wins and then he is chased out of town. And when he eventually returns, he is thrown into the prison, for daring to proclaim his victory by declaring himself the President. I remember that night, at Epetedo, Lagos, when Abiola was smuggled into the arena by the likes of Wahab Dosunmu (who just died) and Chief Ralph Obioha (whose clothes were torn by the surging crowd). Not even the rain that night deterred the people from listening to the declaration. It was such an awesome night.
At the end of the day, not only was Abiola denied his deserved presidency, he was killed or made to die whilst still in government custody. Before he died, he had become government’s enemy number one! His businesses had been crippled by the establishment. I remember how government agencies or ministries began to treat National Concord Newspaper like a leper. Nobody advertised therein anymore. They were not to even buy or read the paper. Gradually but steadily, the establishment snuffed life out of the paper… all to crush MKO, even after he had obviously fallen. It was an injustice that cries to the heavens. It is unforgettable.
Twenty years after, June 12 refuses to fade away. It refuses to be forgotten. It refuses to be dismissed. It has come to represent more than a metaphor for national deliverance and redemption. It has since become a recommended manual of an electoral model. But how much guide have we got from this manual!
NAMA as the Establishment’s Hammer?
Once it was the Economic and Financial Crimes Commission (EFCC), under former President Olusegun Obasanjo, that was manifestly used to haunt perceived enemies of the presidency. Today, the agency in charge of that brief seems to be the National Airspace Management Authority (NAMA). Between April ánd now, the hitherto quiet agency has been in the news, somewhat for the wrong reasons. The aviation agency has been doing lots of explanation to justify many of its actions which are generally perceived to be driven by political considerations.
It started with Gov Rotimi Amaechi of Rivers State in Akure, in April. A plane which had been flying for over seven months in the country was suddenly said to have expired permit, incomplete documentation etc. First, they said the pilot failed to file manifest. Then, the plane got grounded, as NAMA fitfully shopped for classified excuses for its actions. All these came just when the spat between the President and Amaechi broke open. Informed sources say Gov Godswill Akpabio’s plane which had the same documentation process with Amaechi’s, has remained spared by the new Aviation Policies.
Then penultimate Friday, the newspapers had published a report where Dr Sam Ogbemudia granted an interview where he said the Peoples Democratic leadership in Edo State had gone begging Gov Adams Oshiomhole to join the party, but that the latter refused. It was supposed to counter the claim by Olisa Metuh, the PDP spokesman that Oshiomhole had lobbied to be allowed to join the PDP. Ogbemudia’s interview not only cleared the fog, it belied the claim of the PDP. Then the very next day, Oshiomhole’s chartered helicopter which had been allowed to take off from the Benin airport was recalled mid-air and eventually grounded by NAMA, again, on the excuse that the manifest was not filed. If that be true, why was the chopper allowed to take off the first time?
And while the dust from that was yet to settle, NAMA again, last Wednesday diverted the chartered plane carrying the Sokoto State Governor, Aliyu Wamakko (who was recently suspended by the PDP and so a perceived enemy of the power mavens) and the Speaker of the House of Representatives, Aminu Tambuwal, whom it seems had been in the bad books of the party’s hawks, from landing in Sokoto, to Kaduna. NAMA said the crowd at the Sokoto airport to welcome the suspended governor was “unruly”. So to avert the attendant risk, the plane had to be diverted to Kaduna. Some think is is punishment. It is difficult to string all of these as mere coincidences. From Amaechi to Oshiomhole, to Wamakko, all perceived enemies of the presidency, who will be the next on NAMA’s anvil?
Would You Burn the Corpse of your Loved One?
Did you hear that they are about turning our state to Mumbai? Mumbai? Where is that? And who wants to turn our dear Lagos to Mumbai? You don’t know that popular city in India called Mumbai? Don’t you know how they treat their dead? Yes, I know. How does that connect us in Lagos? Did you not hear that there is a new law in Lagos that says dead people will now be burnt to ashes and packed into a bottle? Didn’t you hear this sacrilege? Can you imagine!
What is sacrilegious about burning the dead? Are we more human than those who do it in India? Look, you don’t have to be sentimental about it. It is part of the dynamism of society. A responsible leader has to be proactive and visionary. You can blow all the grammar you like. But I can tell you it is one law that will be Brought-in-Dead. How can we consciously burn the bodies of our beloved ones?
You don’t seem to understand the underpinning of the new law. When last did you visit any of the public or private cemeteries in Lagos? Can’t you see that even the dead are also having acute accommodation problem? Can you imagine where the dead will be buried in the next ten years in Lagos? Can’t you see the cemeteries are full and over-flowing? Even the private vaults would soon run out of space. In fact, some ancient corpses are being removed to accommodate new ones in the cemeteries. So can’t you understand the essence of the new law is to spare the next generation the trouble of finding space for the dead? Really? Ok. Let me ask you: would you burn the corpse of your mother or father, just because Ikoyi or Atan cemeteries are full? Would you? Answer me!
Yes, I can. Stop being sentimental on this matter. It is a reality we have to face someday. In any case, of what use is a corpse? Do you ever go back to maintain a corpse after it’s been buried? If it is the memory you need, the ashes in the urn is a good symbol of your beloved one; something you can relate to and feel. It is different from a corpse dug in somewhere far away, sometimes never visited again by the so-called children or family members.
Do you realize it is against our culture? Burn a corpse? Is that the kind of development we are looking for? Is that how American or Britons treat their dead? If corpses are to be burnt, then of what use are tombs and mausoleums? You are reasoning in analogue way. The world is going digital. I think the Lagos state government should be commended for thinking ahead of the age.
In any case, the law is not binding. It is voluntary. Those who want to do it are allowed by law. But it is not compulsory. But trust me, it is the way to go. Ok, when next your uncle or auntie dies, please go to Mushin, buy plenty of firewood and set them ablaze, gather the ashes into empty ragolis can and take it home.
Look, you sound so made up on your thoughts and beliefs. Thank God your opinion on this matter does not count. The law has been signed by Governor Babatunde Fashola. And there is nothing you can do about it. Hmmmm, you can sign all the laws you want, it is one thing to sign them, it is quite another to implement them. After all, the hullaballoo that trailed the Lagos Traffic laws has settled down now. Have you not been seeing Okada men on Oshodi-Apapa-express way? Or are landlords not still charging new tenants two and even three year’s rent? Please leave me alone with Lagos laws jare. We know how it all goes.
Anthony-Claret is a software Engineer, entrepreneur and the founder of Codewit INC. Mr. Claret publishes and manages the content on Codewit Word News website and associated websites. He's a writer, IT Expert, great administrator, technology enthusiast, social media lover and all around digital guy.
Brett Fuller, a USA-based African-American preacher, grew up in a white dominated environment and as the only black child in his early school days, suffered all sorts of racism but God used that to raise him to reconcile the whites and blacks. He was in Nigeria for the Realm of Glory International Church annual men’s conference held recently in Lagos where he spoke with Mary Ekah about his life as a black African-American minister and how he has been able to overcome the challenge of racism
People know you as a preacher but there seem to be more about you than that?
My name is Brett Fuller, I am from Chantilly in Washington DC. I am the pastor of Grace Covenant Church and also the Chaplain for
Washington Redskins, an American football team. I help the ball players, coaches and the organisation to understand how they can best live with integrity and honour; I teach those who wish to understand more about the Bible and give regular Bible studies to the members of the organisation. We have a chapel service, which is like a small church for all the ball players and coaches the nights before any game. I will then do Bible study individually with ball players and coaches as well as family studies with wives and children and also provide childcare. I am also the Chaplain of the National Association of Basketball Coaches, an organisation that helps to certify amateur basketball coaches all around America.
So if you want a job with the National Collegiate Atheletics Association (NCAA) which is the primary lead organisation for amateur college athletics and basketball, then you have to be certify through the National Association of Basketball Coaches of which they are about 5,000 coaches. I help these coaches to understand how to live with integrity in their occupation and how to balance the time constraint of an 80-hour a week job and still be a family man and it is a joy to be serving at that capacity. Lastly, I also serve as the Chairman of Board for Every Nation Churches in North America and I also serve on the international leadership team for global “Every Nation Churches & Ministries.”
Is your interest in sports part of your strategy for evangelism?
I grew up playing American football and I went to college having my education paid for through scholarship money, so I could play football. When I met the Lord at the age of 20, I wanted to see how I might be able to combine sports and ministry. And when I was sent to Washington DC in 1982 to help establish a church, I was only 21, so I couldn’t be a senior pastor but a supporting person but I established the campus ministry in the Harold University; that campus ministry was joined by other campus ministries in different universities. We will bring all of our students together on Sunday morning and that was how our church began. While I was in campus ministry in Harold University, they hired a new football coach in 1983, I called his office to ask if he needed a chaplain and he said, absolutely yes. He asked me to come for an interview and I went and I was given the appointment with no pay but I volunteer to serve as a chaplain and that way I got involved in sports while I was helping people with their spiritual needs and that inspired me to be the Chaplain of Washington Redskins.
How do you combine your role as a pastor and a chaplain?
As a pastor of a church, there are so many responsibilities that I must attend to at a regular basis but I have a wonderful staff. Our church is not small therefore our staff is about 30 in number with five full time pastors and this allows me to do what I do best for the most, which means I can relegate my ministry to the things that I can accomplish the most for the most people. I don’t have to be in the office every day because I have other pastors that do most of the counseling while most of the administration is done by somebody else. So my job in the church is relegated to three functions: vision on a Sunday morning – casting the sight o for what we have to be as a people; the primary teaching of doctrine and preaching and leadership development – raising up people to do the work of the ministry. These three things, I give myself; when I do that well, which it takes probably 30-40 hours a week, though I’ve never had 40 hours a week job in my life, it has always been 50-60 hours and the rest of the 15-20 hours I give to Washington Redskins. And that serves as an outreach to my community in helping young men be what they need to be.
It is an extension of my church ministry. These are leaders in the community whether they like it or not; all athletes are seen as models of which people, mainly kids want to be and so I think it is important for somebody like me to be in the lives of these young people who are mainly between the age range 22-24 and have a lot of money, time and more fame than anybody should have and their heads get big, ego get larger making them think they are invincible, they make stupid decisions and they are on the front pages of newspapers. I try to make sure that does not happen; I want them to help them make good decisions for their lives, so that they can only be on the paper for what they do on the field and not off the field.
Do you still find time to do sports personally?
I am 52, so it not a good idea for me to do sports but I do exercise quite a bit. I exercise five times a week and I try to keep myself in shape as much as possible. My sons will challenge me – I have seven kids; five boys and two girls and my eldest is 25. My boys love to take daddy out on the basketball court and teach him a few things. So that is the extent of my athletic endeavours today.
You head one of the formidable churches in the world with a congregation made up of different races. How have been able to do that in the face of racism around the world today?
The church that I pastor is a multiethnic congregation with a large percentage of African-American as members, the rest are Whites, Latinos, and Asians. You walk into our congregation and you immediately know what we are. Look on the stage, there are Black, White, Asian and Latinos etc. and it does not just happen like that in America. In America, black folks had been going to white things or places. They shop in white stores, go to white schools and Churches; everything is white because white is a predominant group and we are used to that. But it is rare for a white person to cross to a predominantly black environment. So often I have pastors who are African-Americans come to me and ask how I get white people to stay in my church – they tell me that these white people come to their churches and enjoy the service and choir and yet they do not stay. And I tell them that it is not a recipe but it is I.
My mother and father decided to move me from the ghetto to the city and we were the first black family to break the colour barrier in my neigbourhood. When moved into the neighbourhood, our house was egged and our cars were destroyed. We came out one morning and Mama was supposed to take us to school but we found that somebody had used a sledged harmer to destroyed the headlights and windscreen of our beautiful car, ripped the tyres, pulled out the steering wheel, break all the windows and took out all the car seats all because we were blacks. I was the first black child to go to the elementary school in the neighbourhood but I hated school because they call me every name in the book. It was not pleasant at all. But my parents did a fabulous job of making sure that I was reconciled with everybody. They never spoke one evil word about anybody in the neighbourhood rather they always say it would be okay; you would make it just forgive.
I did not like it but I did not know that they were preparing me to pastor a church in Virginia some 50 years later and to pastor white people because I understood their culture and I spoke their language whereas all of my friends back in the hood who were African-American, grew up differently, they grew up talking slangs all the time; they grew up with a traditional afro centric American accent while I grew up with the white accent and every time my friends saw me, and they had we speak, they said, oh you are not from around here. They try to talk down on me and so I try to speak their language and speak slang like them and my mother told me to stop it because where I was going I must speak twice as well to be heard in this world. So she made learn to be heard by speaking good English.
What would you advise people who still practice racism around the world?
I will first ask them to recognize that God created all men in His image and they all need to be respected in the same way. So no one particular ethnic group is more in His image than another. So all of them need to be honoured and respected.
Anthony-Claret is a software Engineer, entrepreneur and the founder of Codewit INC. Mr. Claret publishes and manages the content on Codewit Word News website and associated websites. He's a writer, IT Expert, great administrator, technology enthusiast, social media lover and all around digital guy.
In this interactive session with journalists, factional Chairman of the All Progressives Grand Alliance (APGA), Chief Maxi Okwu, spoke on burning issues in the party. Olawale Olaleye was there. Excerpts:
Many people are worried that after the Awka Court order, you issued a statement that respected the direct order. But why are you still laying claim to APGA chairmanship?
Umeh did not win any Appeal as people were wrongly made to believe. What he got at the Appeal was a stay of one of the four orders by the Court of Appeal. I wish I came with the documents I would have made a copy for you to read through. Out of the four orders that Enugu State High Court made, only one was stayed. They stayed that aspect that restrained him from parading himself as the chairman of our party. The Court of Appeal agreed that all issues had been overtaken by events.
Number one, that there was no convention. Second, that there should be a convention and that the NEC of the party should have met and ordered a convention. I think there are about four issues raised and we have done all that. The court never said there was non-existent convention. It never said that. The court said once a matter is declaratory, we could not stay it. The only angle of executory- issue of not parading himself is what the court did not release. Every lawyer knows that you don't stay what has been done. The deed had been done already; judgment had been executed by the NEC of the party- convened a convention in Awka and elected its national officers.
On the eve of your party's convention, the court gave an order stopping the convention. Why did the party bring forward the convention date?
That is not true. The notice to INEC from the party was 8th of April. You should understand that INEC doesn't work on sentiment. A party must put everything on paper before INEC, which we did. The only shift we made was the venue from Enugu to Awka. INEC was given adequate notice by our party. We gave 21 days notice.
That's what electoral guideline says. We gave INEC the date and time. The only change was venue from Enugu to Awka. Normally if you wanted to hold a convention, you should have conducted proper accreditation. We did this as we began around 9pm and cleared it before we went for election proper. And I won at the end of the counting of votes.
In Imo State today, it appears there is nothing like APGA anymore as Governor Rochas Okorocha, has taken the party to APC. What is the future of APGA in Imo State?
Our party has issued a statement in this regard and we urged Governor Rochas Okorocha to rethink. Actually, we see his challenges and dilemma but we are saying he should take it calmly. APC is not a registered party; this is a fact as at present. Okorocha is gambling on a quantity that may collapse. I wish APC well but it's obvious it is not yet in a bag. It is still in the offing. It has not been registered by INEC.
For Okorocha to jettison a party that gave him the platform he used to become a governor and starts to gamble with an association that its composition is worrisome, we advise him to rethink. Position of governor of a state is not a small thing. We would not be talking of sanction or discipline him. We'll wait and see whether sanity will prevail through diplomacy and behind the scene discussion. But, at the end of the day, he would decide.
Obviously, APGA is a divided house at the moment. With the forthcoming governorship election in Anambra State the base of the party and general election in 2015, don't you think the crisis should be sorted out now for the party to be a united front?
I have been trying my best to bring every aggrieved member back to the fold of the party. The truth is that there is also enmity in heaven. A political party cannot isolate itself from crisis. As we sit here today, there are various internal crises in PDP that are even worse than what we have in APGA. What we suddenly realised in our party is that Chief Umeh is now like a bull in China's shop.
From his approach of things and activities, he likes to destroy APGA rather than allow the House to stand. We will not allow that to happen. We are going to ease him out. If a 26 NEC member that he lead has left him except two or three of his cronies, he should have seen the hand writing on the wall and resigned. In a much more civilised society, Chief Umeh should have resigned honourably without being asked to quit. Be that as it may, I have extended a hand of fellowship to him thrice.
I recalled I did that at the convention venue, later at the Town Hall meeting in Abuja and before the Abuja meeting. I have said it times without number that I will give him soft-landing but he has refused to accept my hands of fellowship. Instead, he has been fighting harder. There is a limit which you can push a horse to drink. I've extended hand of friendship to him only that he just wants to be the clog in the wheel of progress of the party.
Chief Umeh has said he was elected for four year tenure and that his time is yet to lapse. On what basis did your party kick him out? People have forgotten that Umeh started as Acting National Chairman of the party since December 2004 and now, we are in 2013. He has been parading himself as APGA Chairman for almost nine years. There was a time he took Chekwas to court when Chekwas said he won't stay beyond eight years. The basic fact is that Umeh has been APGA's Chairman for nine years uninterrupted and he still wants to continue in that position. If his tenure is four years that is renewable, by January 2007 when the convention that the court nullified was held, Umeh's tenure had expired.
The court had said so. On 2nd December, his tenure expired. The court said he has no capacity by January 2011 to hold convention. The convention he coordinated in 2011 was nothing but illegal. That's the fact of the whole issue.
He has stayed beyond his tenure. Normally before your tenure expires as chairman, you need to conduct fresh election but he did not do so because he cares to remain as APGA Chairman forever. So, it is not a personal thing. There are rules of engagement in democracy. You finish your first four year tenure and go back to the party for a fresh mandate of another four year term- end of story. Leadership is not what you say but what you do that matters.
As it is, INEC has written to Chief Umeh, recognising him as the authentic APGA National Chairman. Where does that take you?
Is that so? Okay, I have not seen copy of the letter. As soon as I see it, I will react.
Clarify your comments in Awka about Chief Nnamdi Azikiwe and Chief Odumegwu Ojukwu's policies? No! I don't think I ever said so. At Awka, reporters asked me about certain comment I made against Zik and reconciled it with Ojukwu's. I couldn't recollect the exact comment but I know I responded by saying the two are great Igbo sons. The late Zik was known for his Fabian tactics in tackling political challenges. He was always for compromise and for the possible as a consummate politician. That in nutshell was what I said about Zik.
However, I said Chief Odumegwu Ojukwu was a man who was firm in his views and he usually knew where he stood at a particular time. Once a matter came up, Ikemba was known for taking position and remained with such position. The interpretation was doctored. If you interpreted it to mean that, then you would not be fair to me. I don't withdraw what I said that Ikemba was firm in his decision or position on a given issue.
You will always know where he stood. But Zik was known with his Fabian tactics. Now, when a reporter decides to interpret what I said, he was making his own comment and not my comment.
As APGA chairman, what is your mission? Honestly I don't see myself going beyond two years office as APGA Chairman. I wanted to contest election in my state, Enugu. That was why I am in this business; to make APGA formidable in Enugu State to enable me contest and have a chance of winning. There are so many political offices I can vie for like the Senate, House of Representatives, House of Assembly and even governorship position. There are so many to choose from.
Where exactly are you from because there are rumours doing the rounds that you're from one village in Benue State? I won't answer that question. I won't answer that. It does not worth my answer. How can anybody stand up and say that to me? I am from Orji River in Enugu State. It's so clear, it is not arguable. My father is not a hidden person. He was a Senator, Minister and everything. I am from Achi in Enugu State. I find the insinuation laughable.
Governor Peter Obi has not conducted local government election in Anambra State since elected. As the party chairman, how would you intervene? I can assure you that local government elections will take place in Anambra State this year. The Electoral Commission has assured me that they would do that. The arrangement had been on ground even before my election. The legal constraints have been removed to ensure the council elections take place mid-year. Once I am involved, Governor Obi is going to give his own assurance.
Anthony-Claret is a software Engineer, entrepreneur and the founder of Codewit INC. Mr. Claret publishes and manages the content on Codewit Word News website and associated websites. He's a writer, IT Expert, great administrator, technology enthusiast, social media lover and all around digital guy.
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